« on: August 24, 2016, 03:54:21 PM »
Added Hex Hung (highly recommended for twyping = typing + swiping)
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
I trust you noticed I put it on the left thumb? :-)
I actually tried Vertigo type layout on computer keyboard the other day ... thought it was a new idea. Scores on Patrick were not so good, it does not make sense to put little-used numbers on home row or prime index-finger spots. I guess mobile devices will be a different experience.
Am installing the software to test ... currently use paid-for SwiftKey.
Re the xkb files, I don't know.... it would be nice, but there are the config files that need to be edited, and you can't just 'replace' whatever the user happened to have on his system, because it could have been modified.
The 'clean' way is to get your layouts added upstream by the xkb maintainers, and then it will be automagically added when people update their systems. Eg Norman, Workman, etc, have followed that route. I don't think you need to beg them to add the layouts, or pay them money, but I guess they have some criteria to stop every 'new' layout getting added, when no one uses it. I suppose getting some community support for the layout would help. Build a 'vibe' etc.
I'm actually busy building a new site which will, amongst other things, deal with new layouts and attempt to track and report on the good/better/best ones.
If you look at the numbers here:
then the new layout has the second lowest right pinky travel and usage, against other leading layouts. The only one that's lower is my other OAEH layout.
So I don't think your worries are justified...
Need to print some stickers for the relabelled keys. And make an xkb file
Silly me. I think I got your ' and " the wrong way around.
Here you go... let's see what Opt thinks of this:
Their keys pop off and on okay, but some genius decided to make the F and J keys have different shafts to all the rest.... possibly I can scrape the offending bit of plastic off of those two keys, and the two new ones going where they were, but this is not going to support "frequent rearranging" ....
Should have plonked down the money on the Razor ... as least I think it has Cherry-compatible keycaps, and I've got lots of spare of those.
Came to realise last night that humans are strange creatures. We are happy to accept a keyboard with letters in 'random' (ie non-alphabetical) layout, but our heads expect the digits to be in order ... even if that is not optimal.
AFAIK it popped up today on /r/linux
Judging by the few votes it is new.
And most people are stuck on querty.
I guess some manufacturer is testing the water to see if there is a market for an alternative layout off the shelf.
Was it your vote here, or do you have a fan? :-)
I'm not sure I want them at those prices. I'd rather wait for the new Kinesis (Advantage) coming out later this year. I already use old Kinesis Classic, but don't want to reprogram it for every test layout. If I have another Kinesis then I can play around with it.
1061.422 total effort 199.759 positional effort left right
,gy.jz 11.856 same finger rp 5.290 shift same finger top 0.0 20.5
psrimx 0.000 hand alternat. 0.000 shift hand alter. mid 0.0 30.1
ctealk 1.264 inward/outward 85.651 inward or outward bot 0.0 18.5
fdnohv 44.765 adjacent 7.152 shift adjacent sum 0.0 100.0
bwuq 95.767 no hand altern. 0.000 two hand altern.
0.084 seesaw 0.000 indir same finger
--.- --.- --.- --.- --.- 18.7 26.3 22.2 21.3 11.5 Sh 0.0 4.8
The one I saw on Massdrop was around 300 $ I think
you need to register before they let you see.
Apparently the place to buy is here
Fully assembled for 200 €
Oh wait, that one's sold out.
Wood one is 330 € ....
Not sure I want MX Clear switches. The keycaps appear blank, unless it's just the angle of the photo.
One layout to rule them all....
You can actually get 75.44 on Alice with a small change... but it messes up the others. I did also hit 76.05 on Common Words while refining the above. But above result is what gets to the top of all three....
On the downside, the Effort metric sucks. On the other plus side, the finger-use hand balance is 47/53, best in the panel.
On an aesthetic note I'm not wild about the layout ... but the numbers speak for themselves. Wonder what the Colemak fanboys would say.... :-)
Just so I'm clear, we want these numbers to be as low as possible?
Opted4 307.727 total effort 120.514 positional effort
Will try and start playing with the German evaluator later today. I know neither German nor C++... German I can sometimes figure out because of the similarities to English and Afrikaans. Need to read up on C/C++ variable syntax.
Opted4 307.727 total effort 120.514 positional effort left right
2.969 same finger rp 2.638 shift same finger top 9.1 12.9
joy.xfclnz 64.717 hand alternat. 37.242 shift hand alter. mid 25.1 22.7
haeiudstrpk 1.834 inward/outward 29.468 inward or outward bot 4.5 7.6
'"/,-wgmbvq 12.288 adjacent 13.971 shift adjacent sum 55.5 44.5
_ 9.863 no hand altern. 42.253 two hand altern.
4.559 seesaw 4.538 indir same finger
3.5 12.8 11.5 11.0 16.7 1.4 15.3 12.5 11.6 3.8 Sh 3.2 1.4
qnlcf x.ohj QNLCF X:OHJ
prtsd uaeik PRTSD UAEIK
vbmgw ',"yz VBMGW ;()YZ
BEAKL Thumb 4 224.331 total effort 81.877 positional effort left right
3.056 same finger rp 9.094 shift same finger top 8.9 10.9
\/o.xbdclq 65.022 hand alternat. 39.478 shift hand alter. mid 21.5 17.0
zeaiyfhstw 1.351 inward/outward 29.075 inward or outward bot 3.2 7.8
j"',-kpgmv 12.677 adjacent 11.136 shift adjacent sum 52.8 47.2
unr 8.927 no hand altern. 42.224 two hand altern.
4.066 seesaw 3.986 indir same finger
0.4 10.9 12.1 10.2 19.2 11.5 11.7 9.6 12.5 2.0 Sh 3.4 1.2
I've installed LogKeys, will let it run a day or three to get a better idea of what I actually type, and use that for optimising. However I don't think the optimiser programs pay attention to Backspace and delete, do they?....
Was thinking before that you should be able to set an error percentage figure for the optimiser... eg every 10 letters you make a mistake and need to backspace, or somesuch ...
The standard.cfg file mentions
Taste RTRN 15 2 13.50 1.5 5 - 7 # Return
but it's commented out ... maybe you just need to add it to your custom defs?
I loaded it in Patrick's analyzer... score was not to my liking (on Alice) so tried to improve it ...
Best I've got to at the moment is http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/KGLSJrrN
but still way behind your other layouts ... .what do the Germans say about my version?
I'm not happy with the pinky load at the moment ;-)
Hex 13 / DThe config file doesn't seem to accept escape codes.
In Patrick's he uses U:D
so probably something like \x0d or somesuch ... not sure how C++ handles these things.
I read somewhere that E should be on the right hand but that was just an opinion based on most people being right handed (and having ambidextrous spacebar). Also saw some people complaining about a new commercial Ergo board that only provided Space on right thumb ... the lefties were upset. My keyboard tries to be ambidextrous in that regard... you could also remap the arrows keys. I think a lot of complaints (and the whole "make keyboard as small as possible to bring the mouse closer" arguments) would go away if people realised that yes, you can actually use the mouse with your left hand, and yes, it does work better. You just need to be aware that there are right-hand versions of ctrl c/v/x that were defined by IBM :-)
I've been using the mouse on my left hand since the 1990s. It still confuses people. The idea originated from some techie in a corporate I was in at the time.
BEAKL Thumb 1.1 224.133 total effort 78.048 positional effort left right
3.497 same finger rp 7.957 shift same finger top 10.3 9.3
qlcdb-uo"\ 64.292 hand alternat. 45.646 shift hand alter. mid 16.2 18.2
wtshfy.aez 1.546 inward/outward 29.432 inward or outward bot 7.5 4.7
vmgpkx,'/j 12.848 adjacent 8.346 shift adjacent sum 47.3 52.7
nr_i 9.430 no hand altern. 42.292 two hand altern.
4.062 seesaw 4.906 indir same finger
1.9 11.9 9.1 11.1 13.4 20.4 8.7 12.1 11.1 0.4 Sh 3.7 3.2
BEAKL Thumb 1 224.068 total effort 78.409 positional effort left right
3.496 same finger rp 7.918 shift same finger top 9.3 10.3
\"ou-bdclq 64.288 hand alternat. 45.701 shift hand alter. mid 18.2 16.1
zea.yfhstw 1.548 inward/outward 29.437 inward or outward bot 4.7 7.4
j/',xkpgmv 12.842 adjacent 8.308 shift adjacent sum 52.7 47.3
i_rn 9.429 no hand altern. 42.298 two hand altern.
4.061 seesaw 4.904 indir same finger
0.4 11.1 12.1 8.7 20.4 13.4 11.1 9.1 11.9 1.9 Sh 3.2 3.7
134 271.035 total effort 106.408 positional effort left right
3.004 same finger rp 2.921 shift same finger top 12.4 10.9
vncdfu.o/q 64.215 hand alternat. 45.894 shift hand alter. mid 16.1 20.4
brshmyiaez 1.871 inward/outward 30.002 inward or outward bot 8.6 5.4
wlgpkx,'"j- 14.586 adjacent 11.551 shift adjacent sum 47.3 52.7
t 9.549 no hand altern. 42.280 two hand altern.
4.575 seesaw 3.720 indir same finger
3.0 12.8 9.1 12.3 10.1 16.0 12.5 12.1 11.1 1.0 Sh 3.7 3.2
Are you running the analyzer locally or on the official web site? Am asking because I'm not sure how to give it a layout to analyze, since new submissions are not accepted ... Do I just 'configure' a layout and it will use it?
The layout I'm playing with uses both thumbs, and not sure if his algorithm will handle that.
Something that I feel the keyboard analyzers I know about don't consider, is the position of your hand after you move it to stretch for a key. I actually use my pinky less than other people because both are missing the last joint, so I tend to use the ring finger more. Also I'm not a touch typist in the formal sense, and I suspect most people are not either... when I'm typing, my fingers are NOT touching the home keys and pressing, I acually seem to use my index finger and middle finger much more than the others (am noticing this now because I'm paying attention to it as I type...)
Anyway, let's say you need to type a } on a QWERTY layout .. isn't your hand going to move up to the top row, so that if you then need a letter from the top row, there is less of a penalty than if your had just typed a K for example?
Futher, most keyboards are staggered, and the fingers can't just move up and down, they need to go sideways too, which again moves the hand, and affects the penalty or otherwise of the next letter. Am I being clear enough here? :-)
Oh yes, so how does your layout look now? And it's Official Name? :-)
znlcf 'uohq ZNLCF ;UOHQ
prtsd .aeik PRTSD :AEIK
vbmgw x,"yj VBMGW X()YJ
znmcg top 11.8
prtsd mid 22.2
vlwfb bot 8.4
2.5 13.8 10.6 15.5
P R M I
znlcf top 13.2
prtsd mid 22.2
vbmgw bot 7.0
2.5 11.8 12.4 15.8
P R M I
'oiuj top 14.2
,aehk mid 21.8
q."yx bot 3.2
14.7 15.7 7.5 1.2
I M R P
'uohq top 12.3
.aeik mid 23.6
x,"yj bot 3.2
11.1 15.8 11.2 1.1
I M R P
Opted 1 292.209 total effort 90.601 positional effort left right
2.324 same finger rp 1.059 shift same finger top 11.8 14.2
znmcg'oiuj/ 66.771 hand alternat. 32.213 shift hand alter. mid 22.2 21.8
prtsd,aehk 1.792 inward/outward 29.119 inward or outward bot 8.4 3.2
vlwfbq."yx- 14.287 adjacent 23.203 shift adjacent sum 43.3 56.7
9.048 no hand altern. 43.311 two hand altern.
5.137 seesaw 5.387 indir same finger
2.5 13.8 10.6 15.5 0.9 17.5 14.7 15.7 7.5 1.2 Sh 0.9 1.5
Opted 2 294.290 total effort 89.338 positional effort left right
2.737 same finger rp 1.059 shift same finger top 13.2 12.3
znlcf'uohq/ 66.771 hand alternat. 32.213 shift hand alter. mid 22.2 23.6
prtsd.aeik 1.987 inward/outward 28.706 inward or outward bot 7.0 3.2
vbmgwx,"yj- 13.596 adjacent 17.196 shift adjacent sum 43.3 56.7
9.048 no hand altern. 43.311 two hand altern.
4.936 seesaw 5.189 indir same finger
2.5 11.8 12.4 15.8 0.9 17.5 11.1 15.8 11.2 1.1 Sh 0.9 1.5
And please ask your admins to implement
the captchas on this site are ridiculous.
Just wondering how you arrived at these weightings, they differ a bit from those used in developing the Workman layout.
I still need to compare against Michael Dickens' values.
BTW these captchas are even worse than the ones on GeeekHack.