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Author Topic: Balanced Keyboard Layout  (Read 216804 times)

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #100 on: 2016-Aug-16 16:07 »
Re the last layout, you can boost the score on Alice by moving the single quote under the E, and putting the parentheses on the middle fingers.

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #101 on: 2016-Aug-17 20:09 »
I just got my new Kinesis. Just in time because some keys on my old one is getting sticky. So I'm gonna spend some time to play with it.
Support me on Patreon

I saw. I conquered. I came.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #102 on: 2016-Aug-18 01:57 »
Enjoy :-)

Did you see that new 40% board coming to Massdrop?

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #103 on: 2016-Aug-18 21:21 »
The keys are more clicky, less soft than my old keyboard. probably need time to adjust.

There are no application to modify the layouts. You do it using the keyboard one key at a time, or create and edit text files. A special key combination opens the onboard drive to the OS, then you can open it in a file manager and read and write to the files. You can switch between layouts using special hotkeys, based on special file naming convention.

This has some consequences.
1. You can't use the OS to change layouts. Must keep it at locale default, such as QWERTY. Otherwise the mappings get mangled.
2. The unshifted and shifted characters move together. That means punctuation stick together in their default pairs. e.g. dot and greater-than sign always found on the same key. So we can't mix and match the punctuations to our preferences. e.g. I like to move parentheses () down with the letters and <> up to with the numbers. But I can't do that unless I move the numbers down.

I might make a HTML form to facilitate creating layout code that will be accepted by the keyboard. My BEAKL file looks something like this:

Code: [Select]
b_qwerty.txt

[T]>[K]
[R]>[.]
[E]>[O]
[W]>[Y]
[Q]>[J]
[G]>[U]
[F]>[A]
[D]>[E]
[S]>[I]
[A]>[H]
[B]>[X]
[V]>[,]
[C]>[']
[X]>[;]
[Z]>[Q]
[Y]>[G]
[U]>[C]
[I]>[M]
[O]>[N]
[P]>[Z]
[H]>[D]
[J]>[S]
[K]>[T]
[L]>[R]
[;]>[P]
[N]>[W]b
[M]>[F]
[,]>[L]
[.]>[B]
[/]>[V]

[escape]>[caps]
[caps]>[lctrl]
[lshift]>[escape]
[lctrl]>[lshift]
[rctrl]>[rshift]
[']>[rctrl]
[rshift]>[']
[delete]>[bspace]
[bspace]>[space]
[enter]>[delete]
[space]>[enter]
[rshift]>[hyphen]
[=]>[intl-\]
[obrack]>[/]
[cbrack]>[kpplus]
[intl-\]>[=]
[hyphen]>[obrack]
[\]>[cbrack]


[1]>[9]
[2]>[3]
[3]>[1]
[4]>[5]
[5]>[7]
[6]>[6]
[7]>[4]
[8]>[0]
[9]>[2]
[0]>[8]

Square brackets [] mean single key replacement, as opposed to macros in curly brackets {}. Left of the greater-than > sign means the location of the key (in QWERTY). Right side means the new output of the key. e.g. [T]>[K] means the T key should output the letter K.

You can also modify the keypad (secondary) layer, but I have no need for that. I did bring the plus + sign from the keypad layer to the top (main) layer because I want to quickly access it unshifted (as seen by the code [cbrack]>[kpplus]).
« Last Edit: 2016-Aug-18 21:38 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #104 on: 2016-Aug-19 02:18 »
You sound a bit disappointed (and frustrated).

Which OS are you using?

According to Kinesis site, both old and new use Cherry MX brown switches, but I've think I've heard rumblings on the net about them switching production to China and/or doing something that lowers quality. There's plenty of competition now that their patents have expired. Possibly they just need a few thousand presses to get a nice feel. :-)

There are guys in Korea who disassemble, lube, and add 'stickers' inside the switches to improve the action. A bit too otaku for me :-)
Eg
http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/manuals/137-parts-needed-for-a-kbd.html

I find it odd that you can't use the OS to remap the keyboard, the board should send standard "scan codes" to the OS, what the OS does with that does not concern the board....

Cheers, Ian

iandoug

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Cheating?
« Reply #105 on: 2016-Aug-20 16:59 »
I suppose this may be considered 'cheating'.

http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/28ZD4Fps

Basically I got fed up because I couldn't tweak BEAKL Mod to beat BvoFRak EN V0.5 and Colmak and HIEAMTSRN Improved 3 on Distance and Same Finger usage... one or more always had a better score on one or the other.

So I thunk outside the box.

Never actually tried to type like that, it may not be very practical :-)

I see on the 'words' tests it STILL flipping does not win. At least it does give MTGAP Thumbshift (not included above) a run for the money.

Will have to think some more ....

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #106 on: 2016-Aug-21 18:44 »
i don't get hung up on these arbitrary distance scores. their opinion on how to measure distance and effort wildly differs from mine. other tests are less arbitrary, like number of times a key is pressed and same hand/finger.

that H is way out there, though. really bad for HE digram, too.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #107 on: 2016-Aug-22 01:29 »
that H is way out there, though. really bad for HE digram, too.

I trust you noticed I put it on the left thumb? :-)

Cheers, Ian

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #108 on: 2016-Aug-23 17:59 »
I trust you noticed I put it on the left thumb? :-)

Cheers, Ian

I did miss that. I've tried using thumb on the bottom row, but it feels really uncomfortable to curl the thumb like that.

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #109 on: 2016-Sep-04 04:34 »
Any modern keyboard layout should take into consideration the entire desk and other devices on the desk used by the user. i.e. the ubiquitous mouse and its relation to the keyboard. With most users being right-handed, thus the mouse operated by the right hand by vast majority of users, we may assume the user has the left hand perched on the left half of the keyboard. Thus we can assign common utility keys on the left of the keyboard within easy reach. Including space, enter, escape, etc.

The most essential key here is space. (...) Thus we want to place it on the left hand. Naturally the vowel district follows the space to the left hand during optimization.

Furthermore the most common numeral digits should also go on the left hand so that they may be typed without lifting the right hand off the mouse. I propose the order of the number row as such:

Code: [Select]
40123 87659
per the frequency of each digit. The five most common numbers fall on the left hand. The sequence and symmetry gives a sense of order and ease of use. Coincidentally and fortunately the dot/period falls in line with the vowel cluster on the left hand, so fractional values can also be typed mainly with the left hand.

Likewise the numpad could do some optimization as well. Something like this:

Code: [Select]
546
021
378
. 9

where the dot/period is hit by the thumb. With the numpad operated by the right hand, this order allows better rolls.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-04 04:46 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #110 on: 2016-Sep-07 17:35 »
Mmm I don't think I got an email when you posted your message on the 4th. Odd.

Anyway I have applied my mind to the "distance" problem (like a mountaineer, because it is there.. :-) )... and have succeeded in getting low scores on all three tests on Patrick's site. Except for Alice, where I could not beat Arensite, but then I had a look at what he did ... and decided to beat him at his own game. It may be considered a bit of a cheat .... basically you need to put the right shift on the AltGr key ... which takes a lot of work off the right pinky. It's also arguably 'better' to do shift with the thumb, your hand can reach other keys better.

I've also build a spreadsheet which analysed the layouts and three main scores: the overall score, the distance (well, Patrick's version), and same finger use (excluding duplicate letters). Further to that I'm building a site about keyboards, I'll post the data there .... it's easily sortable so it's quick to see how any given layout scores. It will hopefully be up and running tomorrow (but not for public consumption, still very much 'in development').

Needless to say BEAKL mod Ian gets the best overall scores, while my new LoDi (low distance) range basically dominates the distance scores. Have not cracked the same finger metric very well yet ... but the ones that get good marks there tend to not do so well in Distance or overall score. Then I need to find a way to marry the best with the best.... :-)

Cheers, Ian

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #111 on: 2016-Sep-08 09:35 »
Still mostly broken site and a lot to do.
Table is here.
http://www.keyboard-design.com/best-ansi-layouts-as-determined-by-keyboard-layout-analyzer.html

Think it's kinda working ... out of practice at launching new sites :-)
Using Semantic UI as well for the first time, which brings its own issues..

Cheers, Ian

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #112 on: 2016-Sep-08 17:45 »
Thats a huge chart. Don't tell me you typed them all manually? 😃

You should promote that chart to other higher traffic sites (when it's ready). Will generate more discussion (and quarreling between fandoms of popular layouts 😃.)

I notice it's missing BEAKL layouts without your mods. Could add them? Mainly versions 1, 3, and 4 bare bones.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-08 18:23 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #113 on: 2016-Sep-08 18:12 »
Yes, manually typed, but not all at once... :-)

Actually came here to get your BEAKL 4... will have to construct them from scratch as I don't have them.

I have (finally) managed to get something with low same-finger usage on Alice, but beating STDC on the words tests is going to be a challenge... those words are not natural. I took a look at the SAT words... lots and lots of "ious" and "ous"... so my comment re American spelling not really valid there :-)
But people don't type those words so frequently in real life.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #114 on: 2016-Sep-08 18:35 »
Went through this entire thread, think I found the json for your BEAKL layouts. Will sort out tomorrow ... still building movie pages.

Cheers, Ian

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #115 on: 2016-Sep-08 19:02 »
Have added BEAKL Opted 4 to the table, the others are Ergodox layouts which are not done yet.... will be in separate table.

Just check I had the right layout please... :-)
http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/CMLP7qQz

Cheers, Ian


Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #116 on: 2016-Sep-08 19:44 »
Have added BEAKL Opted 4 to the table, the others are Ergodox layouts which are not done yet.... will be in separate table.

Just check I had the right layout please... :-)
http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/CMLP7qQz

Cheers, Ian

Yea it looks correct.

BEAKL Opted 1 is still impressive when you allow letters to go outside the 30 main keys. Have you explored that area and how far? Extend two keys to outside each hands, so optimize 34 keys. The extra characters worth adding are -/()

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #117 on: 2016-Sep-08 19:53 »
Yea it looks correct.

BEAKL Opted 1 is still impressive when you allow letters to go outside the 30 main keys. Have you explored that area and how far? Extend two keys to outside each hands, so optimize 34 keys. The extra characters worth adding are -/()

You mean on Ergodox? I went all over on that layout... didn't check with the original to see how it was supposed to look, just saw keys in weird places and tried things... :-)

I've actually been thinking about why we are limited to 3 main rows (instead of 4 ... ) ... I suppose the touch typists think their fingers have to rest on some keys, instead of, for example, being between two rows ....

I looked at the Arensito page, very old, but his initial design uses the top 3 rows rather than the bottom 3 ... in truth he requires a non-standard keyboard for his layout. I may revisit some of his ideas when I get around to my own design (once I get a logical layout that I'm happy with).

Arensito: http://www.pvv.org/~hakonhal/main.cgi/keyboard


iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #118 on: 2016-Sep-09 05:51 »
Until such time as I put the layouts up, here's a link showing the current top scorers (score only).(IHEAUDS 73.31 and BEAKL 4 Mod Ian 73.08 74.70 74.19)

I've included your BEAKL4 as well, so you can see how my mod differs from it.

http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/jnZtFvL6

Managed to tweak my HIEAMTSRN mod to get the lowest same-finger score (36) on Common Words... just the SAT words left to conquer. :-)

Cheers, Ian

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #119 on: 2016-Sep-09 06:25 »
If we also include 4 thumb keys, that would total up to 38 keys to optimize.

Actually it seems stretching fingers is easier, so it makes sense to start at a lower row. On Kinesis it's quite easy to reach number row. The curvature could benefit that more than the bottom row, even if the latter is closer.

Arensito is just moving one row up, which I don't see much benefit, whether on standard or Kinesis. As explained above, I would accept the number row, but the home and top rows stay in place. Remember stretching fingers is good, so the fingers have to remain low in order for them to stretch.

For example I'll swap the bottom and number rows for quick illustration:

Code: [Select]
BEAKL 4 Stretch

q"',x wflbv
jyo.k gcmnz
hieau dstrp
40123 87659

You can see the home row and top row letters did not move to new rows. They stay the same place on the keyboard.

Of course this is most likely not optimized. We'd have to reassign the effort scores, etc. The main difference off-hand is the distance is farther between home and number row. Nevertheless, that may still be better for row jumping. e.g. jumping from home to old-number row may be better than jumping from bottom row to top row.

Actually the bottom row on the Kinesis feels kind of nice as the home row. It's curved up to meet the fingers which could tap inwards instead of downward.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-09 08:16 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #120 on: 2016-Sep-09 06:47 »
Um, if home row is in same place then I don't think it is necessary to reassign effort scores .... keys are still the same distance away. ?

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #121 on: 2016-Sep-09 06:52 »

Patrick's analyzer really doesn't like the idea... :-) distance scores go way up.

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #122 on: 2016-Sep-09 08:22 »
Kinesis bottom row as home row feels really nice, and so is stretching to the top row. Quick results gave this:

Code: [Select]
BEAKL Stretched

j"'.xwfmbz
qyoukgclrv
hiea,dstnp

Pretty reasonable, not far departure from BEAKL 4.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-09 08:50 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #123 on: 2016-Sep-09 08:33 »
Interesting idea. The 'curling' fingers in always feels awkward to me. I suppose the staggered layouts make it worse.

On another note entirely, I ran some layouts using Google's home page (which is mostly very messy Javascript, disguised by the plain interface).

Results were 'interesting'.
                                   score     distance      samefinger
Colemak                   31.69   764412   16684
MTGAP                   34.15   803772   14322
HIEAMTSRN-Mod Ian 7       46.13   650171   10913
IHEAUDS-73.31                46.67   674424   10377
BEAKL-4-Mod-Ian-73.08    46.71   675512   10375
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-09 08:37 by iandoug »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #124 on: 2016-Sep-09 08:38 »
Clearly we are doing something right ;-)

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #125 on: 2016-Sep-09 09:00 »
I really like it. It's really intuitive. You should try it.

The N moves back to the "home" row, and the R up, which makes PR bigram feel quite good. The U moves next to the O, which is another great move.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-09 09:10 by Den »

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #126 on: 2016-Sep-09 09:16 »
yea it seems like HIEA is a breakthrough. and some form of STRN on the opposite side.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #127 on: 2016-Sep-09 10:26 »
Can you maybe load your new layout on Patrick's site and post the link?

thanks, Ian

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #128 on: 2016-Sep-09 10:29 »
And Ian is seriously annoyed with Arensito for getting these numbers on Google's home page;

61.27   402296   5490

At the moment all I can think is that somehow his layout is tripping up Patrick's analyzer. The Arensito variant does not do nearly so well:
31.58   804118   14919


iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #129 on: 2016-Sep-09 17:00 »
His layout as loaded on Patrick's site seems to be missing the ":" character, unless I am overtired or going blind .... and since Google's home page is dense css and javascript, there are lots of ":"s ....

Neo 2.0 also got a high score on Google, this layout is missing brackets...

I think Patrick just ignores letters not on the keyboard, which leads to misleading results.

Have mostly finished capturing the Google scores, just all my umpteen variants I need to load ... I need to start removing the weaker ones.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #130 on: 2016-Sep-09 19:00 »
Have updated the table, removed my weaker variants, added analysis of Google home page, and got a new high score (and low Same Finger at the same time) on Alice ...

So not a bad day... :-)


Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #131 on: 2016-Sep-09 19:19 »
Here are conglomerate of BEAKL 1, 3, 4, 4 Ergo, and Stretch. Once you set home fingers to the bottom row, it scores very well. Almost as good as BEAKL 3.

Code: [Select]
BEAKL Opted4 Ergo
73.55

BEAKL Opted4
70.17

BEAKL Opted1
69.98

BEAKL Opted3
67.92

BEAKL Stretch
67.33

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #132 on: 2016-Sep-09 20:03 »
Just for fun, I tried to optimize a layout that kept ZXCV at bottom left while applying BEAKL philosophy. It came out like this:

Code: [Select]
ZXCV Opted

qnlfg  .iodj
prstlm  uaehb
zxcvw  ',"yk


It scores between MTGAP and Colemak.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-09 20:07 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #133 on: 2016-Sep-10 14:17 »
Have updated the scores page, now running from a database. Can select what you want to see.
Added some scores from Putin's speech to the UN. (as an example of modern prose).
Page is still a mess of normal HTML styling and Semantic UI styling ... I find Semantic very difficult to work with since everything is in its own div... could not get checkboxes to behave like checkboxes (they looked fine but wouldn't click) so just gave up and went back to plain HTML.

BEAKL 4 Mod Ian 73.08 74.70 74.19 is still a tough cookie to beat on score.

Curiously that it is HI while my leading layouts are IH. I've tried swapping the columns but the scores go down ... think it's related to using the left shift key. The right-hand sides are also different (RN vs NR). My problem is if I go NR then where do I put the P to get nice PR... Mmm maybe R must go on forefinger ....

iandoug

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Low Distance
« Reply #134 on: 2016-Sep-10 14:27 »
Here's my leading Low Distance layouts ... the one wins Alice, while the 59.8x win Common Words and SAT, as regards low distance.

http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/t5rcgP5L

Only way to get low distance is to put O on home row. Which creates other problems.

Cheers, Ian

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #135 on: 2016-Sep-10 19:21 »
They should be default sorted by best average score across all chosen tests.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #136 on: 2016-Sep-11 05:33 »
I did consider that ... I actually wanted to have a selection for "sort results by" but in my imagination that user interface got messy doing that, so I just return results alphabetically and the user can then play with the columns.

At the moment I'm just doing a select and printing the rows as I pull them, after massaging the numbers pretty and adding links (well, 1 at the moment) to the layouts. To pre-sort I would need to populate a table with results and then determine some 'average' (see below) for each row, and then sort the table based on that average.

The question is, how is the average calculated?

For simple cases, eg Test1, Test2, Test3, returning Patrick's "Score" only, yes, that is reasonably straightforward... we want the high score. But different tests have different 'ranges' of scores... eg a good score on Alice is over 70, while a good score on Putin is only over 45 or so. So a straight 'average' won't work.

I actually have already built a spreadsheet (attached, if I can figure out how) which attempted this exercise for a few leading layouts and selected tests and results.

The idea was basically this (column headings)

layoutname    [test score  Rank] (have multiple sets of these [ ])
I looked at : Score, Distance, SameFinger, HandBalance (in finger usage).

So I would have a rank in each category, as well as a winner and loser.

If you add up all the Ranks, the lowest overall Rank is the winner, worst is loser.

The overall best in that exercise was BEAKL 4 Mod Ian 71.34 74.65 74.19, with IHEAUDS 71.48 74.47 73.37 second.

But at the same time, IHEAUDS had 11 Bests and 1 Worst, and BEAKL had 10 Bests and 1 Worst. So by that measure, the results should be flipped.

Which is why your suggestion is not so trivial... :-)

Then I got to thinking about "standardizing" each set of scores. The problem is that for example we have scores like this:
75 74 73 65 62 58 55
The difference between the top two is 1, while between the bottom two is 3, but in Ranking, they will only be 1 rank apart, and give a misleading idea of their relative strength.

However if for example, we put the top score at 100%, and then converted each score to a percentage of that, then we would have a consistent way of comparing things.

However, how do we handle the cases where LOW SCORE is desired? I suppose one way would be to do the same exercise, and then subtract everything from 100.... but then "best" does not come out at 100 but at something below it

Eg doing the exercise above for the numbers

75 74 73 65 62 58 55

for Want High, we get 100 98.67 97.33 86.67 82.67 77.33 73.33
for Want Low, we get 0 1.33 2.67 (etc)
and taking averages will just get you 50 each.

I suppose what MIGHT work is if we do this, to standardise LOW score as desired on a percentage scale.

Take max score.
Find next multiple of 10 (eg 100, 1000, 10000, etc).
Subtract each score from this.
Now take resulting high score as 100%, and calculate the rest as a percentage.

so for above we would have
75 74 73 65 62 58 55, giving
25 26 27 35 38 42 45, and taking 45 as 100 (we want LOW SCORE to win), we get
55.55 57.78 60 77.78 84.44 93.33 100

and then I think we can work out an overall average....

I'll have to think about how to do this.... at the moment the program printing the table is doing it 'blind', it does not know nor get which score is good or bad, it's just data to be printed. I'll have to

1. store in table.
2. add bunch of columns to table for the standardised %
3. do the sums, which will need to know which way around to calculate the %
4. sort on total column.

Issues:
1. layouts require score for every test.
2. results of doing this are RELATIVE to other layouts compared ... if I add a new layout tomorrow then all the scores may change if it is good, since all scores are relative to 'best' in any given test.

Going for brunch, will ponder this some more.

Typing helps me think (because it forces both sides of your brain to work together :-) ).

Spreadsheet attached, .ods in .zip. Done with LibreOffice. Not a spreadsheet guru.








iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #137 on: 2016-Sep-11 05:36 »
"Default" score in spreadsheet is the score for the default text that populates the text box on Patrick's site.

Also regarding "stretched", I think you will need to tweak the analysis because I'm pretty sure all the distances are based on Home row being where it should be ... regardless of where you say your fingers will live. I've tried running his program locally, it loads and runs but the results are a mess.. the 'tabbing' layout does not work. Not sure why.

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #138 on: 2016-Sep-11 05:59 »
"Default" score in spreadsheet is the score for the default text that populates the text box on Patrick's site.

Also regarding "stretched", I think you will need to tweak the analysis because I'm pretty sure all the distances are based on Home row being where it should be ... regardless of where you say your fingers will live. I've tried running his program locally, it loads and runs but the results are a mess.. the 'tabbing' layout does not work. Not sure why.

Reassigning home fingers definitely affects scores. Without doing it, Stretch only scored about 60. After changes, it jumped to 67. Could there still be some other bias? Maybe. Like maybe the number row is too far from home. So maybe we could my original idea by swapping number and bottom rows. And see if that scores better on Patorjk.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-11 06:04 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #139 on: 2016-Sep-11 07:38 »
Have already tried your suggestion I think, scores were not so good. I think we maybe need to do something like
numrow
qwerty
asdf
zxcv

to
qwerty
asdf
zxcv
numrow

but then KLA needs to know that homerow is now shifted up by one.... it affects the distance scores as well as other keys on home row (apart from home keys).

Anyway realised over lunch that my formula for standardizing to LOW score should be

100/(score/minimum)

Example, 50 and 150, 50 is best:
50: -> 100/(50/50) == 100%
150: -> 100/(150/50) = 100/3 == 33.33%

Which looks about right.

Also decided that it will be much easier to let LibreOffice do all these messy calcs, I can them load them in the database, which will the site more responsive.
More later.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #140 on: 2016-Sep-11 10:14 »
Have the results on my spreadsheet, all tests. Top 30. Several different variants of IHEAUD|CS. Am surprised IAEHDCS does so well, only stumbled onto it yesterday .... I don't like the fact that left pinky works a bit hard, but the numbers speak for themselves....

Link to top 5: http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/bjW0bFrb

Arensito                       85.5453865086
IAEHDCS                     84.9611410774
IHEAQCS                     82.4472692076
IHEAUDS                     81.6353200338
IHEAUCS                     81.630233298
IHEAUDS                     81.5693450842
IHEAUDS                     81.1444153607
HIEAMTSRN                   80.1132358376
HIEAMTSRN                   79.9814712378
STNDC                       79.2283658384
IHEAUDS                     79.1437295271
BEAKL 4 Mod Ian             78.2078933097
BEAKL 4 Mod Ian             75.0225753607
Colemak                     74.4453369389
Aus der Neo-Welt            73.6976925801
HIEAMTSRN                   72.0745854358
NRSTM                       71.3330104301
Balance Twelve              71.2838682852
Colemak                     70.9977722175
Arensito                    70.9919299888
Colemak                     70.7519334525
MTGAP                       70.7486709207
Colemak                     70.7464793632
LoDi                        70.6361898754
Ian OAEH                    70.53085519
LoDi                        69.2987388188
Colemak                     67.8736509498
Vu Keys                     67.5566278433

So I'm very annoyed with Arensito (see how low down the other variant is), but I can't help thinking that it's somehow showing up bugs in Patrick's program. I mean, look how difficult it looks to type "the". I can't believe that it gets such high scores.
I "fixed" it by adding the two missing characters (: and \) and I could see where missing, which only changed the scores slightly.

If you have any ideas as to how it is scoring so well, please advise :-)

Now need to modify my loaded program, and then the code that gets the results for display.

Note: we're actually double-counting here, since Patrick's overall score includes distance, same finger, plus other metrics.
Note 2: BEAKL 4 mod Ian still wins lots on score alone. Other metrics not so good.
Note 3: first Colemak variant above is my right-shift mod.

cheers, Ian

iandoug

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Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #142 on: 2016-Sep-11 16:09 »
Right, the final score is already the aggregate to determine "winner" on KLA. So the average or sum of scores for all corpuses checked should be default. Name this "Overall Score".

You may also consider additional fields to sum the distances and same fingers besides the overall score. Name these Overall Distance and Overall Same Finger.

This way no additional math is needed. No percent or division. There could be default sort direction for each field, and user can reverse order if they want.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #143 on: 2016-Sep-11 16:38 »
Let me think about that. In truth it is tedious keeping my spreadsheet up to date with all the calculations going on.

At present the site does do more or less what you want, in a slightly different way.. eg if you only select to see Scores, then you get what you asked for above, the right hand column is the average of the standardised scores (ie  each score as a percentage of the winner's score). The order will still be the same doing it your way.

Likewise if you select Distance or SameFingers.

I decided to investigate the problem with Arensito and Google ... Google's code is Not Exactly English. They use weird constructs, in particular things like a.b or _. or a, .... and since we have both comma and period on the A finger, the Same Finger scores go through the roof. But A is not a common letter to end a word on in English.

So I think I need to separate that test out (perhaps in a group of other Computer tests), because it is messing up the evaluation of a layout for English.

I know I would never use variables like they have ... nightmare to debug. I assume it is the result of a minimization step where proper variable names are reduced to single letters for distribution.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #144 on: 2016-Sep-11 18:51 »
Well the same-finger metrics continue to drop.... :-)

Have decided to split the table into two sections:
1. unremapped keys (ie you can move keys around, but no relabelling)
2. remapped keys

That way we can compare apples to apples better.

Might have an "all comers" the same as current as well.

I should probably go to bed now...

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #145 on: 2016-Sep-12 01:20 »
The key to Arensito seems to be activating the special characters with Alt-Gr rather than reaching to a distant row. This works in its favor when inputting code.

edit: or maybe this layer forgot to calculate the actual keys. you can see the heat map that Arensito is extremely light when testing with code. whereas other layouts have heavy usage on many keys.

QED the Alt-Gr layer is miscalculated. It subtracts distance and finger usage.
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-12 02:54 by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #146 on: 2016-Sep-12 09:41 »
Here are conglomerate of BEAKL 1, 3, 4, 4 Ergo, and Stretch. Once you set home fingers to the bottom row, it scores very well. Almost as good as BEAKL 3.

I have added these (except ergo) and implemented some of your suggestion. I think for distance and samefinger I need to use the methodology I was using previously, but done by PHP not me fiddling in spreadsheets.

Also added another test.

BTW the v4 linked above must be slightly different to the one I had, some scores were better.

Arensito also has () and - on Alt-Gr, so that's probably boosting the score in other places too.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #147 on: 2016-Sep-13 03:50 »
I see VU Keys layout does very well, and was surprised to see why ... it's largely a mirror of what we're doing.

Curious that I arrived at something similar starting from a completely different place. I suppose it validates the design ideas to a large extent.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #148 on: 2016-Sep-13 10:00 »
So I added a new test (KLE) and my poor 'best-at-English' gets clobbered down the rankings.

I suspect it's because the text makes heavy use of < and > which need the right shift as opposed to the left, and the difference to that key from Home is higher on the right hand side than on the left hand side ... amazing how a few millimetres adds up... :-)
« Last Edit: 2016-Sep-13 18:32 by iandoug »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #149 on: 2016-Sep-14 14:51 »

 

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