Author Topic: Balanced Keyboard Layout  (Read 87929 times)

Den

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Re: Arrow keys
« Reply #1350 on: July 12, 2018, 03:07:33 AM »
Consider for matrix layout to expand the thumb area to accept more navigational keys. Left thumbs get Home+End; Right thumbs get Page Up+Page Down.

Notice the thumb keys will encroach on the main area occupied by letters. These are some of the worst keys for typing, so not a big loss. The two displaced symbols can be placed on the punc layer instead.

See attached.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 03:19:16 AM by Den »
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iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1351 on: July 12, 2018, 03:49:45 AM »
One of the problems with my Ergolinear (physical implementation, not KLA layout, see attached) is that the arrow keys are in the centre which  is supposed to be convenient for lefties and righties, but I suspect that it will be convenient for neither.

However while playing around a bit it looks easy for the thumbs to work Left and Right, and if we had Up and Down on the keys above them, then that would be easy too.
Downside of that is requiring both hands to work arrows.

I guess I'm not the only one thinking the classical Nav cluster needs a major rethink... :-)

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1352 on: July 14, 2018, 03:27:42 PM »
Finally created download page:
http://www.shenafu.com/code/keyboard/beakl/download.php

XKB files to remap your keyboard in Linux.
Opt's cfg and corpus to test against.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1353 on: July 14, 2018, 05:06:43 PM »
Cool :)

You do the xkb by hand?
Just asking because I'm contemplating a script KLA2XKB .... but there are issues ... like knowing how much to include from another layout.

Um, don't you need to specify which hardware/geometry it works on somewhere?

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1354 on: July 14, 2018, 06:55:19 PM »
initially i used app called keyboard-layout-editor, but it spit out weird symbols, and too verbose. so i fixed the rest by hand.

you should have a basic layout. then compare/diff the other layouts to find the keys that need to be updated.

hardware geometry is independent from logical layout, and it's set by the user based on the hardware they own. as long as the key codes align, logical layout should work for any hardware. e.g. I set mine on Kinesis.

create new geometry only if you have new physical design. mostly it only helps for creating a PS image generated by xkb. wouldn't affect the logical layouts or other operations.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 06:58:41 PM by Den »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1355 on: Yesterday at 02:12:29 AM »
initially i used app called keyboard-layout-editor, but it spit out weird symbols, and too verbose. so i fixed the rest by hand.

you mean keyboard-layout-editor.com ? That generates custom json (and uses even more custom json-lite internally). By "custom" I mean it uses alignment and colour codes that it understands but not human-friendly unless you are familiar with the codes. And far from XKB layout.
Currently busy with a KLE2KLA program, basics work (for ANSI), but need to munge it to auto-fill missing upper/lower, move non-character keys to unshifted slot, etc.
And make sure there is a right and left shift, else KLA barfs... :-)

So in theory something like KLE2KLA2XKB is possible, for known-to-KLA form factors.

My other problem is how well PHP understands upper/lower case for non-English letters.

I was thinking of diff-style operations to re-use existing parts of other layouts. Will have to see what effect the white space in XKB files has.

BTW the last time I played with XKB I think there were three files to modify, not two. Will revert later.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1356 on: Yesterday at 01:59:48 PM »
BTW the last time I played with XKB I think there were three files to modify, not two. Will revert later.

Looks like three may no longer be necessary, but maybe just needed for consistency.
Not sure what the various flavours of Linux do when these files get updated by new releases.

http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/Blog/custom-keyboard-in-linuxx11

mstacker

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1357 on: Yesterday at 06:27:26 PM »
BEAKL 15 officially promoted as the recommended layout. Including the improved punctuation and numpad. Updated on BEAKL page and KLA Den3

Cool looking! Thanks. I look forward to checking it out.

Matt

iandoug

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Re: Arrow keys
« Reply #1358 on: Today at 05:29:14 AM »
Consider for matrix layout to expand the thumb area to accept more navigational keys. Left thumbs get Home+End; Right thumbs get Page Up+Page Down.

So the other day the voice in my head suggested, quite innocently... why not use a joystick for the arrow keys?
Maybe a mini-joystick, perhaps a bit bigger than what IBM used to put in their laptops for mouse navigation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick

And then when I looked for the correct piece of text to reply to, another enhancement ... you could in theory have another one that does Home / End (left/right) and PageUp PageDown (up/down).

Advantages:
1. very finger friendly ... no hard clicking.
2. only need one finger instead of 3/4 (yes I use my thumb to press down. Not doing it any good, that contortion). Any finger will do...
3. possible faster
4. reduces clutter in keyboard layout, allowing narrower (shorter?) keyboards, so that the mouse is closer on the right.

In my days playing arcade games, I typically controlled the joystick by putting whole palm over it. I know some people grabbed it in different ways. But arcade-size joysticks will be a bit too big for a keyboard (apart from looking downright silly and getting in the way)

I wonder how two mini joysticks between the halves of a split keyboard will work.... then work them with left and right thumbs....

[This be "prior art" for the patent trolls.]


iandoug

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Re: Arrow keys
« Reply #1359 on: Today at 09:20:06 AM »
[This be "prior art" for the patent trolls.]

Not exactly what I had in mind but half the idea has been done ....

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/wp-content/images/retroscan/keystick_large.jpg

Patent about such an add-on:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2014/0098022.html
PDF with pictures: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140098022.pdf

Had something more elegant in mind, this is better:
http://xkeys.com/xkeys/assets/images/XK-68+Joystick/XK-68JoyCloseUp_1200.jpg

http://xkeys.com/XkeysControls/index.php

Tried to find mini joysticks on AliExpress without luck ... ideally they should work long-life micro-switches or blade switches, but blade switches give problems over time. Contacts get dirty etc.

iandoug

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Re: Arrow keys
« Reply #1360 on: Today at 11:17:04 AM »
Tried to find mini joysticks on AliExpress without luck ... ideally they should work long-life micro-switches or blade switches, but blade switches give problems over time. Contacts get dirty etc.

Not cheap.

https://www.apem.com/int/37-joysticks