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2019-Jun-24 23:38

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Mar. 24 2019 - 7:46pm
@Den Just finished 2nd playthrough and testing session. I really like the edits I have made. Going to take another week to look over things !!
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Mar. 11 2019 - 7:04pm
@Den Hey, thanks for all of the support. Finished with the changes and currently playing through the game !!
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Feb. 25 2019 - 7:31pm
@Den Yo, finishing up the bosses and will do some more testing before the big release !!
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Feb. 18 2019 - 10:42pm
@Den Hey, got the main bosses edited and working on the treasure chests. Getting close to finished my edits !!
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Feb. 10 2019 - 9:11pm
@Den Yo, got the shops edited now and will start work on the treasure edits. I bit confused on monster chests ATM...
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Jan. 29 2019 - 6:56pm
@Den Hey, really making progress with my Hex-Editing. Replied to my topic...a bit stuck again
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Jan. 23 2019 - 11:42pm
@Den  Yo, I am really getting the hang of this HEX editing stuff !! Working on figuring out the growth rate formula !!
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Jan. 17 2019 - 8:31pm
@Den I am starting get more understanding about Hex editing.  Thanks for taking time out for me !

Author Topic: Balanced Keyboard Layout  (Read 275230 times)

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1600 on: 2019-Mar-10 13:23 »
Both layouts are for two right hands, the rows of keys seem to be deliberately arranged in such a way that  both wrists have to be slanted like this: \ \.

Ergonomics expert Karl H.E. Kroemer's opus "Fitting the Human", 7th edition, has the attached image on page 340.

So maybe we're all jumping to the wrong conclusion ... Sholes did his layout for ONE right hand... the left held the page you were typing from.

In which case the consistent slope to the left makes sense.

(FWIW, the edition is rather light on information that would be useful on this project, IMHO).

Cheers, Ian

iandoug

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"Code" layout
« Reply #1601 on: 2019-Mar-11 00:59 »
Found while looking for something else.

https://github.com/osls/code-layout

Json attached.

On KLAtest does better than QWERTY but worse than Colemak/Dvorak/MTGap.

Cheers, Ian

philippe.quesnel

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Re: "Code" layout
« Reply #1602 on: 2019-Mar-11 08:00 »
Found while looking for something else.

https://github.com/osls/code-layout

Json attached.

On KLAtest does better than QWERTY but worse than Colemak/Dvorak/MTGap.

Cheers, Ian
hehe there's an  autohotkey script.. I'll try it out just for fun 😁

shopt

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1603 on: 2019-Mar-14 01:38 »
:-)
Okay, you confirm my point that QMK works by faking that it is a US ANSI keyboard. (which, as an aside, is not "the Linux way").

So it pretends you are pressing what would be "a" on US ANSI, regardless of where it actually is on the keyboard.

Now what happens when you're in Canada and you define the normal letter on a key to be é . That does not exist in US ANSI, so what does QMK send?

Your description matches how I understood QMK's intentions to be ('we can do anything", more or less) and yes it can tap dance and do backflips, but at the end of the day it's still faking being a US ANSI when it comes to sending scan codes.

In my case, building the X6.5h (https://keyboard-design.com/letterlayout.html?layout=x6-5h.en.ergolinear) I had issues getting the Function keys to work. This may have been because of XKB (I "Included" other default components including Function keys, and tried to redefine them in XKB mappings by putting them on the numeric shift, but didn't work) rather than QMK. There may also have been some other issue, can't remember now, tried to have another look over the weekend but other stuff got in the way. Will try again during week).

When I looked at it I got very confused by the QMK documentation .... they really need a better Big Dummy's guide for us newbies. With lots of simple examples. At the time I though their config method was unnecessarily complex and there had to be a simpler way, maybe that's not possible if you want to to backflips.

I see I redid QMK to think it's running on a mostly-ANSI layout, so my problems probably lie more at the XKB end.

Will revert. Else I need to put aside time to become more of an expert on QMK. Trying to get away with learning only what I need to learn ;-)
I have to admit I'm with sdothum in not getting what limitation you think QMK is imposing. There are some QMK limitations, but I don't think you are describing a QMK limitation but rather a USB HID limitation. All keyboards send scancodes, and the OS does something with them. QMK can send any scancode. It has made convenient names for the scancodes at https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/tmk_core/common/keycode.h which correspond to US-ANSI. In other words when you use the QMK keycode KC_A on a keymap, it sends the scancode which will be interpreted by any OS using the US-ANSI layout as an "a". You are free to alias or rename any keycode you want to send any scancode you want. Specifically for your french example, see https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/quantum/keymap_extras/keymap_french.h

So I guess the question is what do you think a QMK keyboard cannot do that another physical keyboard could?

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1604 on: 2019-Mar-14 02:40 »
example, see https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/quantum/keymap_extras/keymap_french.h

So I guess the question is what do you think a QMK keyboard cannot do that another physical keyboard could?

That French file helps a lot.

My issues were (remembering that I was new to QMK and very much at sea)

1. I was expecting the configs to let me specify that pressing row 3 col 2 would send the scancode for row 3 col 2, not that it would send the scancode for qQ (if I figured that out correctly) or jJ if I had decided to put that letter there.

2. it was not immediately obvious how to specify that pressing shift-/ sent something different to what is on US-ANSI / key. Or even (for Essie/Seelpy layouts) that shift-e was actually a and not E.

The French layout shows me how it do that... thanks :-)

I had decided to do it again the QMK way rather than letting XKB do the heavy lifting, but luckily other stuff got in the way, and now I have a better clue... :-)

Thanks, Ian

gyf

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1605 on: 2019-Mar-23 19:38 »
Hello all,
tried to optimize both English and Chinese Pinyin and came up with this layout.
By putting i,e,a,o,u on the way same as other BEAKL layout on the left hand side is actually
optimal in my opinion, both logically and ergonomically. The only down side is ua bigram in Chinese and placement of i on ring finger, but cannot come up with a better solution now.

For right hand consonants district, so far I am happy with it, probably gonna tweak a little more, note that these are optimized for both languages so there are some trade offs. I do think that the punctuations part can be optimized further, along with L,R shift, Alt-Gr etc.
 
What do you guys think of this layout? Still new so I may need some suggestions. I think this layout can be a potential candidate to beat BEAKL-EZ, although more test will be needed.

Btw for benchmarking other languages, I think lyrics is somewhat biased, maybe does not reflects true distribution of frequency for Pinyin, cannot confirm but I will run more paragraph with pinyin later, and I can also provide the text if needed.

Thanks!
gyf

ankt

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1606 on: 2019-Mar-28 11:56 »
Here is mine. Maybe that will help you.
https://postimg.cc/H88JjkrT

Den

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Bruhdooh on Youtube
« Reply #1607 on: 2019-Apr-12 05:48 »
This Bruhdooh has Youtube channel where he records his typing speeds: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6qYy2El8APSL5sfxzSkBoA

He created a new layout based on BEAKL Opted1 and bit of Colemak to reduce same finger, and now achieved up to 113 WPM after about two weeks:



Even on QWERTY, I notice he rarely uses his pinky--sometimes ring finger to hit A/Q, and he achieves 150+ WPM.

« Last Edit: 2019-Apr-20 05:49 by Den »
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Den

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Re: Bruhdooh on Youtube
« Reply #1608 on: 2019-Apr-20 05:54 »
Bruhdooh on Youtube explains how he types at 150 WPM:

Quote
"I only use 7 finges while typing. I do not use my right pinky, and I don't use either thumb. I use my left pinky on very specific letters and words only. I mainly use six fingers: Indexes, Middles, and Rings."

Crazier thing is he even hits the space bar with index finger.



Bruhdooh

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Re: Bruhdooh on Youtube
« Reply #1609 on: 2019-Apr-20 15:37 »
Bruhdooh on Youtube explains how he types at 150 WPM:

Crazier thing is he even hits the space bar with index finger.



Hello, I'm the guy you are talking about. I don't type like that anymore, I now use 9 fingers and thumb for spacebar. And on QWERTY I hit speeds of 160WPM+ three times.

Anyway, I really do like BEAKL and hope that I can somewhat become the fastest BEAKL typist in the world. I believe there is one other person who types on stenography who is around my speed as well on BEAKL 15.

If you have any questions, I can answer them here for you. :)

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1610 on: 2019-Apr-24 09:44 »
@Den ... odd, no longer receiving updates when new posts are made.

Anyway, FWIW:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47460499

BTW above typing speeds certainly impressive ...

Cheers, Ian

Bruhdooh

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1611 on: 2019-Apr-24 14:30 »
@Den ... odd, no longer receiving updates when new posts are made.

Anyway, FWIW:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47460499

BTW above typing speeds certainly impressive ...

Cheers, Ian

I was wondering if you were going to make any more updated versions of BEAKL? I have managed to get around three more people go try out BEAKL 9 and 15.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1612 on: 2019-Apr-24 16:40 »
I was wondering if you were going to make any more updated versions of BEAKL? I have managed to get around three more people go try out BEAKL 9 and 15.

BEAKL is from Den, not me.... :-)

But glad people are finding that it works for them... :-)

Bruhdooh

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1613 on: 2019-May-01 23:34 »
I'm having trouble finding a download link for BEAKL 9 or any of the other versions besides BEAKL 10 and 15. Is there a download link for each version or is there just the download of those two?

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1614 on: 2019-May-16 16:25 »
I'm having trouble finding a download link for BEAKL 9 or any of the other versions besides BEAKL 10 and 15. Is there a download link for each version or is there just the download of those two?

http://shenafu.com/code/keyboard/klatest/#/config

itypeonkeyboards

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1615 on: 2019-Jun-01 15:16 »
My apologies if these are dumb/answered questions, but I'm looking at BEAKL-15's layout and there are a few things I don't understand:
  • I assume AltGr is equivalent to the "Windows" key?
  • Since AltGr is a layer key, how does one do combinations like Windows+L (to lock the screen)?
  • Looking at http://shenafu.com/code/keyboard/kla3/#/config, how do I map entries like "u:2196" to a key I actually recognize (maybe those, in particular, are Home/End/PgUp/PgDn)?

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1616 on: 2019-Jun-01 16:29 »
My apologies if these are dumb/answered questions, but I'm looking at BEAKL-15's layout and there are a few things I don't understand:
  • I assume AltGr is equivalent to the "Windows" key?
  • Since AltGr is a layer key, how does one do combinations like Windows+L (to lock the screen)?
  • Looking at http://shenafu.com/code/keyboard/kla3/#/config, how do I map entries like "u:2196" to a key I actually recognize (maybe those, in particular, are Home/End/PgUp/PgDn)?

1. What keyboard do you use? AltGr is the right hand side Alt key, not the Windows key. Though some US keyboards may not have it I suppose.
2. I guess Den is using u:2196 to represent "Home". Next one is End, etc, as you suggest.

We use some of those ideas on keyboard-layout-editor.com , see the keyboard-layout-editor icons under "character picker".

Hope that helps :-)

itypeonkeyboards

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1617 on: 2019-Jun-01 16:57 »
1. What keyboard do you use? AltGr is the right hand side Alt key, not the Windows key. Though some US keyboards may not have it I suppose.

Thanks for the quick reply!

I currently use a Kinesis Advantage (Dvorak) when I'm not using my laptops' keyboards and I like that it utilizes the thumbs. I'd like to build something more portable and hope to use it more universally on both Linux and OSX machines. I'm happy to learn a new mapping as I've done so before. Single-siding modifier keys (shift, control, alt) is a new wrinkle for me, but pretend-typing on a printed piece of paper suggests I can reach everything when modifying with the thumb.

I've never had a key combination using "alt" differentiate between left and right alt although since keys like the Windows key exist only on one side, shortcuts typically take that into consideration to avoid "unpressable" combinations; I need all of control/alt/windows keys but AltGr can't be both a Windows key and a layer key. If it's not a Windows key, then what's the expectation for shortcuts that require it?

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1618 on: 2019-Jun-01 18:04 »
I currently use a Kinesis Advantage (Dvorak) when I'm not using my laptops' keyboards and I like that it utilizes the thumbs. I'd like to build something more portable and hope to use it more universally on both Linux and OSX machines. I'm happy to learn a new mapping as I've done so before. Single-siding modifier keys (shift, control, alt) is a new wrinkle for me, but pretend-typing on a printed piece of paper suggests I can reach everything when modifying with the thumb.

I've never had a key combination using "alt" differentiate between left and right alt although since keys like the Windows key exist only on one side, shortcuts typically take that into consideration to avoid "unpressable" combinations; I need all of control/alt/windows keys but AltGr can't be both a Windows key and a layer key. If it's not a Windows key, then what's the expectation for shortcuts that require it?

Does this help? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key

You might want to look at some of the alternate layouts on Ergodox/Kinesis form factors, to see your options or give you some ideas. Either directly in one of Den's KLA sites, or  at https://keyboard-design.com/internet-letter-layout-db.html .... just type ergodox in the "search" bar there to filter.  The page does not have the latest BEAKLs because I haven't gotten around to running the tests with them yet.... on the ToDo list.

Cheers, Ian


Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1619 on: 2019-Jun-02 01:34 »
On Kinesis, I reprogram the main right thumb key (was default Space) as Scroll Lock (which is useless to modern Windows users). This is an actual toggle so you can see on the keyboard indicator when the layer is toggled on or off. The entire BEAKL layout replacement is done as AutoHotkey script, so I can put any character any where and utilize Scroll Lock as its new purpose.

On Linux, I can choose Scroll Lock as a layer changer in the system settings under keyboard section. If it's not there, add it into the config files as an option.

mstacker

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1620 on: 2019-Jun-02 13:17 »
On Kinesis, I reprogram the main right thumb key (was default Space) as Scroll Lock (which is useless to modern Windows users). This is an actual toggle so you can see on the keyboard indicator when the layer is toggled on or off. The entire BEAKL layout replacement is done as AutoHotkey script, so I can put any character any where and utilize Scroll Lock as its new purpose.

On Linux, I can choose Scroll Lock as a layer changer in the system settings under keyboard section. If it's not there, add it into the config files as an option.

Den, out of curiosity,
1) have you ever tried to use the advantage layout configuration stuff to implement a BEAKL layout?
2) did it work?

I made a brief attempt to work with advantage layout editing stuff but could not figure out a way given the time. Instead, I've been using a pair of ergodox keyboards (1 at work, 1 at home), the massdrop infinity variety if memory serves, and QMK firmware. The keyboard works but could use physical improvements to suit my preferences.

On a related subject,
Have lots of parts for smaller viterbi keyboards laying around but got totally sidetracked in jan 2018 and remain so for the most part indefinitely. Last I remember, my thinking was key wells ‘felt’ best to me but... a two piece, split down the middle, ’ortholinear’ style keyboards were suitable so long as they had enough rows and columns (5 rows but enough columns to experiment with flat thumb clusters) . I had to modify thumb cluster on my ergodox. Was planning to try new arrangements. The flat ergodox is not ideal. I ended up having three ‘shift’ keys I out on the right to facilitate 4 layers in total. It works good enough. There is a better way to arrange the F-keys, arrows, non-alpha numeric, etc than the hap-hazard way Ive done it... but it works and Ive been able to do my job.

Since kinesis sells internal parts for advantage, so Im told, and you can purchase pcbs, controllers etc that can be used to replace the advantage’s guts them program using QMK firmware, et el, might try modifying my advantage that has been collecting dust at some point.

My Advantage reservations:
1) it would be nice if it was split in two down the middle, but not a deal breaker, yet.
2) would like a key well keyboard, like the advantage, dactyl manuform looks promising each half can be propped up on its side such that you are typing sideways.
3) the advantage is not ideal for portability. For example, kinda large to use in coffee ships (I have in the past.).

You guys are awesome because you’d likely just make your own if you felt the need, as I should. However, the worst enemy to greatness is something that is ‘good enough’ at least for the moment. My time is extremely limited and Im eating that up upping my game for work stuff. The overhead to grt into 3-D printing, prototype then maybe have a frame professionally printed is lots. It’s in my queue., but Im overwhelmed for the next 2-3 years min. Therefore, I've prioritized other items.

Bit of a mouth full.

Thanks brother.

Glad to see the progress. Ive been using BEAKL 9 now for ... not sure... at least like 18 months. It works in terms of ergonomics.

Many many thanks.

Matt

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1621 on: 2019-Jun-02 13:45 »
You guys are awesome because you’d likely just make your own if you felt the need, as I should. However, the worst enemy to greatness is something that is ‘good enough’ at least for the moment. My time is extremely limited and Im eating that up upping my game for work stuff. The overhead to grt into 3-D printing, prototype then maybe have a frame professionally printed is lots. It’s in my queue., but Im overwhelmed for the next 2-3 years min. Therefore, I've prioritized other items.

One of the "building guides" (think it was Jessie's) on the net says (admittedly a few years ago) that printing keys via 3D printing is not viable ... the tolerances are not good enough (at that point). Perhaps they have since improved, but likely you will need a high-end machine to be sure. I think it's the tolerances where the key fits on the switch.

I supposed for the "case" part of the keyboard it is not so critical.

I've got the guy in the back of my head nagging me again.... telling me I need to completely rethink the way keyboards are laid out. Not sure where that is going yet, will have to wait for the next bit of insight/inspiration to hit.
Will finally try and get my own first keyboard up and running by end of July.... things have been a bit hectic ever since last year January.

Cheers, Ian

mstacker

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1622 on: 2019-Jun-11 01:05 »
Will finally try and get my own first keyboard up and running by end of July.... things have been a bit hectic ever since last year January.

Cheers, Ian

How is that project coming, by the way? Sounds like you’ve almost got it.

Matt

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1623 on: 2019-Jun-11 03:25 »
How is that project coming, by the way? Sounds like you’ve almost got it.

The project manager (me) is useless.... :-)

The hardware is okay, not as pretty as I wanted but it always was "a prototype". Need to redo the firmware which will require some fiddling, planned for the school holidays starting next week.

I have an LED that is supposed to show the status of the Insert/Overwrite key, but not sure if the firmware can be made to toggle on that key, without getting confused by me also using it for copy-paste operations (Ctrl-insert and shift-insert).

Will report back in a few weeks assuming things work.

Then I will probably switch the layout from X6.4 to something like X7.1 or similar... early testing already showed some annoyances with the X6.4 layout.

Cheers, Ian

mstacker

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1624 on: 2019-Jun-14 16:22 »
The project manager (me) is useless.... :-)

Nah. It's just that you can only choose between 2 and 3 million goals to focus on at any given time. This is it more or less? <http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/samples/pkb.json>

Looks awesome. Interested to hear your input about how the overall feel, particularity the thumb keys.

Matt

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1625 on: 2019-Jun-14 17:25 »
Nah. It's just that you can only choose between 2 and 3 million goals to focus on at any given time. This is it more or less? <http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/samples/pkb.json>

Looks awesome. Interested to hear your input about how the overall feel, particularity the thumb keys.

That was the original plan. But dummy testing (printed life-size on A3 paper, stuck keys on with artist's temporary spray glue) showed the layout to have some issues, particularly all the thumb keys. Rethinking that led to the ErgoLinear layout.
Version I'm making is attached. Logical letter layout will probably need changing. I think also that the numpad in the middle, while theoretically a good idea (i.e. can be used by both left and right-handed people) is not really a good idea, since I am right-handed, so making it left-hand-friendly was pointless. Also the typing angle of the centre block contorts the wrist. So will probably revert to right-hand-side numpad, or copy Den and integrate it on a layer. Also thinking about a joystick or somesuch instead of the 4 arrow keys.

Which is why I think I said a few messages back that I need to rethink keyboards AGAIN.... :-) ... There must be a better way.

Attached pic has leather top which I then proceeded to damage while trying to enlarge a drill hole... so actual version will have a fibreboard top (because I had one cut at the same time as the other layers). I did have a perspex shiny black top which also got damaged. Some things I learn the hard way.... :-)

itypeonkeyboards

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1626 on: 2019-Jun-14 23:53 »
Does this help? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key

You might want to look at some of the alternate layouts on Ergodox/Kinesis form factors, to see your options or give you some ideas. Either directly in one of Den's KLA sites, or  at https://keyboard-design.com/internet-letter-layout-db.html .... just type ergodox in the "search" bar there to filter.  The page does not have the latest BEAKLs because I haven't gotten around to running the tests with them yet.... on the ToDo list.

Cheers, Ian

Sorry, late reply...

My goal is to build a keyboard as opposed to remapping my Kinesis (I'd like something more portable). But, I'm still not understanding -- as I understand it, AltGr is the layer key for the punctuation layer. If I were to build a keyboard exactly as it looks on http://www.shenafu.com/code/keyboard/beakl/index.php (or http://shenafu.com/code/keyboard/kla3/#/config), it doesn't look like I'd end up with a keyboard that has the (PC) Windows/(OS X) Control key (left of the left Alt on a PC keyboard, left of the left Option key on a Mac keyboard). Maybe I don't understand how layering works?

In any case, what I'm truly trying to understand is whether this layout has a Windows key (or a key I can use as a Windows key). By example, Windows-L locks my Linux laptop. On the BEAKL 15 keyboard, can I do this? If it's AltGr-L, wouldn't that result in a "^" key press, instead?

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1627 on: 2019-Jun-15 03:33 »
In any case, what I'm truly trying to understand is whether this layout has a Windows key (or a key I can use as a Windows key). By example, Windows-L locks my Linux laptop. On the BEAKL 15 keyboard, can I do this? If it's AltGr-L, wouldn't that result in a "^" key press, instead?

Ah. Okay for KLA purposes that key usually is not included. I'm on Linux and I use the Left Windows key (Henceforth referred to as "OS Key") as a Compose key. If you're using it just to Lock your computer, it doesn't have to be in such a convenient spot.

If you look at the pic of my built keyboard above, you will see that the Escape key (top left) is now doing triple duty...

1. Esc (just press it)
2. "Menu" key ... what the RHS "Menu" key does on normal keyboard. This is on Shift-Esc.
3. OS Key ... what the LHS Windows key does on normal keyboard. This is on AtrGr-Esc.

If you look at more recent (laptop) keyboards, you will see that manufacturers are scaling back on these Microsoft additions to the standard layout, since most people don't use them.

For BEAKL layouts, you could use one of the unused keys. You get to choose where :-)

Hope that helps :-)

Cheers, Ian

Bruhdooh

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1628 on: 2019-Jun-16 21:28 »
Sadly I have to leave you folks as I went back to QWERTY. Just easier to type on, more accessible, and on top of that I am just plain faster and more accurate on it. Though I must say that the BEAKL layouts are very comfortable.

itypeonkeyboards

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1629 on: 2019-Jun-16 22:00 »
Ah. Okay for KLA purposes that key usually is not included. I'm on Linux and I use the Left Windows key (Henceforth referred to as "OS Key") as a Compose key. If you're using it just to Lock your computer, it doesn't have to be in such a convenient spot.

If you look at the pic of my built keyboard above, you will see that the Escape key (top left) is now doing triple duty...

1. Esc (just press it)
2. "Menu" key ... what the RHS "Menu" key does on normal keyboard. This is on Shift-Esc.
3. OS Key ... what the LHS Windows key does on normal keyboard. This is on AtrGr-Esc.

If you look at more recent (laptop) keyboards, you will see that manufacturers are scaling back on these Microsoft additions to the standard layout, since most people don't use them.

For BEAKL layouts, you could use one of the unused keys. You get to choose where :-)

Hope that helps :-)

Cheers, Ian

Sorry, I'm unsure what you mean by "Compose key", but per your keyboard, were you to wish to lock your screen, would you simultaneously ty AltGr+Esc+L? I use the OS key a lot, on both Linux (to move between virtual desktops, window resize, etc.) and OS X (cursor movement, etc.) for a lot of combinations. Almost all of the shortcuts (on both OSes) rely on the key being on the left, chord relative to the keys next to it, and assume arrow keys on the right (hence both utilizing OS+arrow keys for shortcuts); I doubt the key could effectively driven off anything other than a thumb, and it would need to be possible to match both OS's assumptions about where keys are.

I'll need to think about this some more -- I rarely use the mouse/track pad because most of what I need to do can be accomplished, using shortcuts, on the keyboard (and this is much faster, at least for me) and having an OS key is essential; I'm just not sure where I could effectively place it.

iandoug

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Capacitive touch keyboard
« Reply #1630 on: 2019-Jun-19 10:25 »
So I'm thinking about my poor fingers and how years of pressing keys are causing joint issues etc.

Then I get to thinking that maybe we don't need to press keys ... just touch them like capacitive buttons in a lift/elevator. And not like the old Atari 400 keyboard which was same idea but sucky, it was a membrane switch not capacitive. Apparently made that way to be peanut-butter-proof.

Initial search does not find right kind to replace switches... did find one that's about 1cm by 2cm for the switch-plus-circuit which I suppose could be made to work somehow, but it was a touch-for-on, touch-for-off which is not what I want.

Searching is made trickier by the fact that "capacitive keyboard switch" is an already-existing but different idea.

Something like this. They're dirt cheap. Way cheaper than conventional switch+keycap.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10Pcs-TTP223-Touch-Key-Switch-Module-Touching-Button-Capacitive-Switches-Self-Locking-No-Locking-Jog-2/32761802828.html

These are 15x11 mm which is smaller than 19x19 normal keycap.

Thoughts?

Or will the just-touch-not-press action be too weird?

Thanks, Ian

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1631 on: 2019-Jun-19 10:32 »
Sorry, I'm unsure what you mean by "Compose key", but per your keyboard, were you to wish to lock your screen, would you simultaneously ty AltGr+Esc+L?

Compose key: wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key
more useful: https://fsymbols.com/keyboard/linux/compose/

I use KDE and alt-ctrl-l (left alt) locked the screen. It's not something I use much, and when I did I would right-click on Desktop and select Lock Screen (and I see it says the shortcut is alt-ctrl-l).

Keyboards are personal, make it work like you need it to :-)

Cheers, Ian

itypeonkeyboards

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1632 on: 2019-Jun-19 23:08 »
Compose key: wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key
more useful: https://fsymbols.com/keyboard/linux/compose/

I use KDE and alt-ctrl-l (left alt) locked the screen. It's not something I use much, and when I did I would right-click on Desktop and select Lock Screen (and I see it says the shortcut is alt-ctrl-l).

Keyboards are personal, make it work like you need it to :-)

Cheers, Ian

Huh. all this time I didn't know such a thing existed! I've been using Ctrl+Shift+u and typing in the unicode value of stuff I need, like 00b0 for the degree symbol (°).

Also, it finally dawned on me that the keyboard picture you sent me was of an X7.1 variant. I understand from other reading I've done that it's, effectively, intended to win the analyzer, and X7.1H does for pretty much everything I throw at it that I've typed at some point. I like that it solves my "thumb/OS key problem" with BEAKL by reverting to pinkies for those keys so I can easily add the OS key and the up/down/left/right/pgup/pgdn in the bottom row and have it be similar enough to QWERTY such that the OS's shortcuts are type-able. If you don't mind me asking questions:
  • Lowercase h on the thumb with AltGr... Does this "work"? "th" and "he" are the two most common bigrams ("th" is a nice roll on Dvorak), does it work in practice to require two keys for "h"?
  • The layout's "pairing" of <>, {}, (), and [] is inconsistent and almost haphazard -- does this matter in practice (once you commit it to muscle memory), or is my suspicion that it'd be annoying because you can't just move index & middle to left/right and type them both at the same time valid?
  • What's your general experience with/opinion of the mapping? Does its scoring well translate to a more pleasant typing experience? Have you a BEAKL keyboard or other mapping you can compare it to?
  • From my high school days as a cashier, I'm curious about 0 in particular on your numpad as this is normally a thumb key
  • How'd you get your keycaps "lettered"? I'd just assumed I'd go all blank because there'd be no way to accurately letter it, anyway, but you seem to have gotten a custom lettering.

Thanks again for your patient tolerance of me & my questions!

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1633 on: 2019-Jun-20 02:34 »
Huh. all this time I didn't know such a thing existed! I've been using Ctrl+Shift+u and typing in the unicode value of stuff I need, like 00b0 for the degree symbol (°).

Also, it finally dawned on me that the keyboard picture you sent me was of an X7.1 variant. I understand from other reading I've done that it's, effectively, intended to win the analyzer, and X7.1H does for pretty much everything I throw at it that I've typed at some point. I like that it solves my "thumb/OS key problem" with BEAKL by reverting to pinkies for those keys so I can easily add the OS key and the up/down/left/right/pgup/pgdn in the bottom row and have it be similar enough to QWERTY such that the OS's shortcuts are type-able. If you don't mind me asking questions:
  • Lowercase h on the thumb with AltGr... Does this "work"? "th" and "he" are the two most common bigrams ("th" is a nice roll on Dvorak), does it work in practice to require two keys for "h"?
  • The layout's "pairing" of <>, {}, (), and [] is inconsistent and almost haphazard -- does this matter in practice (once you commit it to muscle memory), or is my suspicion that it'd be annoying because you can't just move index & middle to left/right and type them both at the same time valid?
  • What's your general experience with/opinion of the mapping? Does its scoring well translate to a more pleasant typing experience? Have you a BEAKL keyboard or other mapping you can compare it to?
  • From my high school days as a cashier, I'm curious about 0 in particular on your numpad as this is normally a thumb key
  • How'd you get your keycaps "lettered"? I'd just assumed I'd go all blank because there'd be no way to accurately letter it, anyway, but you seem to have gotten a custom lettering.

Okay, I find the combination of EurKEY layout (https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/start.html)(also available for Windows...) plus Compose key to take care of most cases without resorting to a character picker. I've added a few others that I use regularly to my  ~/.XCompose  file (you may need to restart your desktop for those to be picked up, I think KDE does it automagically). The EurKEY layout should be an option already under your keyboard layouts, so you won't need to install it.

As for the layout, that is X6.4 or thereabouts (not X7.1), 6.4 was designed to win previous version of Den's analyzer, I have some issues with that layout. I have not used it much but don't think it's ideal. I also have doubts about the h on the thumb, that's one of the things that got addressed with the Seelpy/Essie variants. So I can't answer questions about how practical the h, or the brackets are, yet. Will advise, hopefully in a few weeks.

The numpad was designed strictly in terms of "most used digits are easiest to type". We do not type all digits with equal frequency, blame things like dates or dialling codes, which overload 0,1,2. Also hundreds/thousands etc.

I had the keycaps laser-engraved, they are PBT keycaps from Signature Plastics, they DO engrave (actually 'burn') fine, so don't believe what it says on Deskthority. You just need to use the correct laser. Downside is that there is a cost, I paid R8/keycap a few years back (that's 0.56USD at current rates, would have been more dollars back then). But still, if you have 100 keycaps then just that alone is the price of several cheapie keyboards.

My memory says there was another variant that put the h in a better place but can't think of it now. Will poke around and revert if I find it.

Cheers, Ian
« Last Edit: 2019-Jun-20 02:38 by iandoug »

 

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