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Author Topic: Balanced Keyboard Layout  (Read 297558 times)

m2genie

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1650 on: 2019-Jul-12 04:51 »
Not sure I trust his frequencies, the English one is wrong... looks like he compiled his own frequencies from a limited number of sources (as opposed to, for example, the Brown Corpus for English).
Yes, in Russian and in all Cyrillic languages 4 vowels are  the most frequent at all: "о е а и". Slightly less often 3 more vowels are used: "у я ы". These are in the middle of the list.  And there are 3 more vowels, one of which can be deleted at the very end of the list "ю э ё".
In fact, I was just typing, and I noticed that the most frequent letters at all are  "о е а и". And the average "у я ы" are much rarer. The rarest "ю э ё" have never been caught at all in the text.

There are 33 letters in the Russian alphabet. There are 10 vowels, 21 consonants and 2 letters-apostrophes in the alphabet (one in the middle and one at the end of the list(ь ъ).  But one vowel at the end of the list can be replaced by another at the beginning of the list(ё е). The result is 32 letters(9 vowels, 21 consonants and 2 letters-apostrophes).

I don't know which sources to trust. I have no experience or understanding in this sphere.. But on the linguistic forum I found nothing better than the file I attached above in my post.

« Last Edit: 2019-Jul-12 04:54 by m2genie »

m2genie

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1651 on: 2019-Jul-12 18:39 »



I tried to apply the Frogpad layout to my scheme. But the dot and comma are uncomfortable.
Code: [Select]
/* LO
 f a r w p
  o e h t d  .
  u i n s y ,
 
/* L1
   ' b m J
 q z l c v .
    k g x   , 

m2genie

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1652 on: 2019-Jul-16 19:48 »
I created a Russian right-handed layout dividing the alphabet into 2 parts simply by the frequency of use.
Code: [Select]
о е а и н т с р в л к м д п у я
ы ь г з б ч й х ж ш ю ц щ э ф ъ

L0
          . 
        уеслд,   
        ионтвк     
        яармп

L1

          .       
        жйчшэ,     
        ьгбзыю     
        щхцфъ

It turned out that all the main vowels on the index finger. Well, it seems like a compromise, I can't imagine anything better.
I can't test it in practice yet, but I'm satisfied with the result in general.  It seems that I will stay with this variant for now. 
Here are the efforts I have made.
Code: [Select]
#      Name   ξ  ρ       x  y    f   g   α   s # Zahlenreihe/number row
 # Taste AE09  10  0    8.75  0   +3   -   20  - # 9

#      Name   ξ  ρ       x  y    f   g   α   s # Obere Zeile/upper row
Taste  AD06   8  1    6.25  1   +2   -   4   - # Z
Taste  AD07   9  1    7.25  1   +2   -   2   - # U
Taste  AD08  10  1    8.25  1   +3   -   2.5 - # I
Taste  AD09  11  1    9.25  1   +4   -   5   - # O
Taste  AD10  12  1   10.25  1   +5   -   8   - # P
# Taste  AD11  13  1   11.25  1   +5   -   20  - # Ü

#      Name   ξ  ρ       x  y    f   g   α   s # Mittlere Zeile/middle row
Taste  AC06   8  2    6.50  2   +2   -   2   - # H
Taste  AC07   9  2    7.50  2   +2   +   1   - # J
Taste  AC08  10  2    8.50  2   +3   +   1,5 - # K
Taste  AC09  11  2    9.50  2   +4   +   2   - # L
Taste  AC10  12  2   10.50  2   +5   +   3   - # Ö
Taste  AC11  13  2   11.50  2   +5   -   6   - # Ä

#      Name   ξ  ρ       x  y    f   g   α   s # Untere Zeile/lower row
Taste  AB06   8  3    7.00  3   +2   -   6   - # N
Taste  AB07   9  3    8.00  3   +2   -   2   - # M
Taste  AB08  10  3    9.00  3   +3   -   4   - # ,
Taste  AB09  11  3   10.00  3   +4   -   6   - # .
Taste  AB10  12  3   11.00  3   +5   -   12  - # -
# Taste  AB11  13  3   12.00  3   +5   -   50   - # S

#      Name   ξ  ρ       x  y    f   g   α   s # Leerzeichenzeile/space bar row
Taste  SPCE   7  4    7.00  4   +1   +   0     # Leerzeichen/space
ShiftL LFSH   0  4    0.00  4   -1   -   2     # Shift links/left
ShiftR RTSH   8  4    8.00  4   +1   -   2     # Shift rechts/right
So I am generally satisfied with the Russian layout, but I will be glad to hear your critics or hints. But I am much more interested in the English keyboard layout now. I don't have an English corpus, but I will try to make it according to your recommendations above.
First of all, it is necessary to determine what frequency of English letters to choose for my task, as here: https://www.sttmedia.com/characterfrequency-english#letters or another variant http://letterfrequency.org/ ?

The most common variant of the frequency of English letters that I found:
Code: [Select]
e t a o i n s r h l d c u m f p g w y b v k x j q z
Secondly, I need to divide the alphabet into two parts. My keyboard will consist of 18 keys. Except for the alphabet it is necessary to appoint a statically dot and a comma irrespective of layers in general. In Russian layout opt has defined to me such places for a dot and a comma (keys are allocated by grey-blue):

The dot is on top. The comma is on the right. I have moved one key from the bottom of the pinky to the top of the middle finger on the keyboard scheme since the last post.

I also need to add an apostrophe to the English alphabet. In Russian there is no apostrophe, or rather the role of an apostrophe is performed by two letters(ь and ъ). Therefore, the apostrophe can be considered non-static ("Zeichen"), not static ("FixesZeichen"). I do not know the frequency of the apostrophe in the English language, to place it on the first layer or on the second. In the Frogpad layout the apostrophe is on the first layer, but in my configuration file I defined it on the second layer.

As a result it turns out that in total 18 keys for symbols. But the dot and the comma should be appointed statically for both layers. In addition, I need to add an apostrophe here.

Ian, I will have to collect the English corpus for a long time. Maybe you can help me to make an English layout for my configuration? In the attached configuration files I have divided the alphabet as follows:
Code: [Select]
e t a o i n s r h l d c u m f p
g w y b v k x j q z '
There are 16 keys and a Space and two Shifts(I didn't include a dot) and a comma).

I'm not sure I've correctly assigned the letters. I also decided to exclude a dot and a comma from the calculations at all, because I determined their location when calculating the Russian layout. If you calculate my configuration on my case I will be very grateful to you. Perhaps you will not like something and you will change something. I do not insist on anything on 100%.
Thank you.
« Last Edit: 2019-Jul-16 20:21 by m2genie »

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1653 on: 2019-Jul-17 11:08 »
So I am generally satisfied with the Russian layout, but I will be glad to hear your critics or hints. But I am much more interested in the English keyboard layout now. I don't have an English corpus, but I will try to make it according to your recommendations above.
First of all, it is necessary to determine what frequency of English letters to choose for my task, as here: https://www.sttmedia.com/characterfrequency-english#letters or another variant http://letterfrequency.org/ ?

The most common variant of the frequency of English letters that I found:
Code: [Select]
e t a o i n s r h l d c u m f p g w y b v k x j q z
I use the following. The English order comes from the Brown Corpus, the programming punctuation from Xah Lee's site. But that is a function of the languages he picked to analyze.
The English shows upper and lower frequency separately. The order you have above looks okay, I see the f and p are swapped, and w and y.

$ANSIfreq = (space)etaoinsrhldcumpfg.ywb-,v0k1TAIS2C'"/3ED9:MN=RP;4OB5)L(HFx8W67G_UjqzJ<?Y@*VK!|$~[]%X&+#QZ}{>`\^
$ProgPunc = ,."-_.)('{}&:=/;>+#$\<*[]%|!`@^?~


Ian, I will have to collect the English corpus for a long time. Maybe you can help me to make an English layout for my configuration? In the attached configuration files I have divided the alphabet as follows:

I have some English files, am still trying to get some decent programming code.
The English files do not include all the letters... what's missing varies by file. See the analysis I posted a few days ago.
Have attached the best I have at the moment, in terms of how well they mirror the letter frequency in English.

Cheers, Ian

m2genie

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1654 on: 2019-Jul-18 15:13 »
I use the following. The English order comes from the Brown Corpus, the programming punctuation from Xah Lee's site. But that is a function of the languages he picked to analyze.
The English shows upper and lower frequency separately. The order you have above looks okay, I see the f and p are swapped, and w and y.

$ANSIfreq = (space)etaoinsrhldcumpfg.ywb-,v0k1TAIS2C'"/3ED9:MN=RP;4OB5)L(HFx8W67G_UjqzJ<?Y@*VK!|$~[]%X&+#QZ}{>`\^
$ProgPunc = ,."-_.)('{}&:=/;>+#$\<*[]%|!`@^?~


I have some English files, am still trying to get some decent programming code.
The English files do not include all the letters... what's missing varies by file. See the analysis I posted a few days ago.
Have attached the best I have at the moment, in terms of how well they mirror the letter frequency in English.

Cheers, Ian

Ian, thank you so much for the corpus! Thanks to this, I made the layout:



http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/5x8KjDkQ
Code: [Select]
/L0
  .
yahwp,
ierstd
uonfg

/L1
  .
 v'q
mlcbk
 xjz

The famous Frogpad layout for comparison (scores less points in the test):


http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/B422rxBl
Code: [Select]
/L0
 
  .
farwp
oehtd,
uinsy 

L1

  .
 'bmj,
qzlcy
  kgx

And a special thanks for the tip about programming punctuation from Xah Lee's site. You may use linux kernel code for analysis, most programmers think it is ideal. But this is true only for C/Cpp. I'm going to use it myself too. 

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1655 on: 2019-Jul-18 16:37 »
Ian, thank you so much for the corpus! Thanks to this, I made the layout:
http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/5x8KjDkQ

Mmm. Your score is not correct because you have no upper case on the keyboard ... Patrick's site just ignores those letters in the input text, which results in an incorrect score.

I was wondering how you were going to test your layout on KLA because we don't have a one-handed layout. In theory you need to do something like this:


I see you also have two "h" and no space or "e" or "c" .... :-)

This is about the best I can do at the moment : (Patrick's site was unable to save configuration....)
Code: [Select]
{
    "label": "One hand modified",
    "fingerStart": {
        "1": 29,
        "2": 30,
        "3": 31,
        "4": 32,
        "5": 66,
        "6": 74,
        "7": 35,
        "8": 36,
        "9": 37,
        "10": 38,
        "11": -1,
        "false": -1
    },
    "keyboardType": "ergodox",
    "author": "Jarl Stefansson",
    "authorUrl": "",
    "moreInfoUrl": "http://geekhack.org",
    "moreInfoText": "A modified Colemak for Ergodox",
    "keys": [
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "finger": 1,
            "id": 0,
            "shift": -1,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 1,
            "id": 1,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 2,
            "id": 2,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 3,
            "id": 3,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 4,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 5,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 6,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 7,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 8,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 9,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 8,
            "id": 10,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 9,
            "id": 11,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 10,
            "id": 12,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "finger": 10,
            "id": 13,
            "shift": -1,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "finger": 1,
            "id": 14,
            "shift": -1,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 1,
            "id": 15,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 2,
            "id": 16,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 3,
            "id": 17,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 18,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 19,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 20
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 21,
            "shift": -1,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": 121,
            "shift": 89,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 22,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": 100,
            "shift": 68,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 23,
            "altGr": 103,
            "shiftAltGr": 71
        },
        {
            "primary": 115,
            "shift": 83,
            "finger": 8,
            "id": 24,
            "altGr": 119,
            "shiftAltGr": 87
        },
        {
            "primary": 108,
            "shift": 76,
            "finger": 9,
            "id": 25,
            "altGr": 39,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": 117,
            "shift": 85,
            "finger": 10,
            "id": 26,
            "altGr": 113,
            "shiftAltGr": 81
        },
        {
            "primary": 44,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 10,
            "id": 27,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "finger": 1,
            "id": 28,
            "shift": -1,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 1,
            "id": 29,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 2,
            "id": 30,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 3,
            "id": 31,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 32,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": -1,
            "shift": -1,
            "finger": 4,
            "id": 33,
            "altGr": -1,
            "shiftAltGr": -1
        },
        {
            "primary": 114,
            "shift": 82,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 34,
            "altGr": 98,
            "shiftAltGr": 66
        },
        {
            "primary": 116,
            "shift": 84,
            "finger": 7,
            "id": 35,
            "altGr": 104,
            "shiftAltGr": 72
        },
        {
            "primary": 101,
            "shift": 69,
            "finger": 8,
            "id": 36,
            "altGr": 105,
            "shiftAltGr": 73
        },
        {
            "primary": 97,
            "shift": 65,
            "finger": 9,
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}

iandoug

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one-handed keyboards
« Reply #1656 on: 2019-Jul-27 11:20 »
This is on offer on Drop / MassDrop for cheaper.

https://www.tapwithus.com/

Their finger allocation is "logical" but I think it's sub-optimal ... they make you double-tap two fingers and then all five to enter a space.... Hopefully the remapper thing will be out of beta at some point.

But for one-handed use it may be a viable option.

I find their website rather slow from here.

Cheers, Ian
« Last Edit: 2019-Aug-25 05:31 by iandoug »

iandoug

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touchpads
« Reply #1657 on: 2019-Aug-16 17:44 »
So my touch switches finally arrived ... took like 4 days from China to here, and then umpteen weeks to wind their way through customs and the postal service.

Photos attached. They're still stuck together, need to split them apart and then figure out how to mount them.

Initial test (to see if there was an LED like in the pics on supplier site) using two AA batteries failed, will try again using power from USB and a meter to see if they actually work or not, before trying to connect them to the keyboard controller.

Will revert in due course. Next big decision is ... how close together should they be mounted ... same as standard keys, or do we take advantage of their smaller size (especially in the one direction) to pack them closer together and thus reduce finger travel, and thus "effort" ....

Cheers, Ian

srr0

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1658 on: 2019-Oct-14 00:25 »
Hi! I wanted to post a PLLT layout, that I've been using for my laptop.
Some pics from user: qites inspired me to try spreading out the keys.
It's made with kbdedit, so windows only for now. I could use a linux version, but I am having difficulty,
remapping special keys with xkb.
Any thoughts on useful keys to add? I want to stick with the touchpad, and wondered if a keyboard cut/paste could be an option. Thanks for considering this.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1659 on: 2019-Oct-14 02:25 »
Hi! I wanted to post a PLLT layout, that I've been using for my laptop.

What is PLLT? :-)

What language is this for?

Thanks, Ian

srr0

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1660 on: 2019-Oct-14 23:51 »
It's for US, I got it from vden 3 Keyboard Layout analyser.

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1661 on: 2019-Oct-15 02:35 »
It's for US, I got it from vden 3 Keyboard Layout analyser.

Well that's embarrassing ... clearly I've been away from exploring keyboards for too long (been tied up deep diving into Giza. Fascinating.)

I asked about the language because I could not see the key for "Rr" ... assume it is on the actual keyboard.... :-)

I find laptops a real challenge, because of their non-standard key layout ideas, and plug in something better when I can.

Den would be better person to reply re adding cut/paste keys ... (or tweaks to this layout in particular).

Cheers, Ian

srr0

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1662 on: 2019-Oct-15 09:41 »
@ Ian,

Thanks for getting back to me. I remember from some older posts, that mapping with xkb, was part of your DIY keyboard plan. I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction.
    I can remap <CAPS> to y, using udev, but can't figure out how to make it 3 or 4 level.  Any linux-fu is much appreciated!  :)

iandoug

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1663 on: 2019-Oct-15 10:35 »
@ Ian,

Thanks for getting back to me. I remember from some older posts, that mapping with xkb, was part of your DIY keyboard plan. I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction.
    I can remap <CAPS> to y, using udev, but can't figure out how to make it 3 or 4 level.  Any linux-fu is much appreciated!  :)

https://askubuntu.com/questions/82837/how-do-i-make-the-caps-lock-key-a-third-shift-key

That's the general idea, think there are special words like Hyper and Super for 3rd and 4th level (above shift, ctrl and alt)
https://askubuntu.com/questions/423627/how-to-make-hyper-and-super-keys-not-do-the-same-thing

Have not tried these myself yet :-)

This year has been a bit hectic with homeschooling my kid, apart from being distracted by Giza. Need to get back to sorting out the keyboard project.

Cheers, Ian
Cheers, Ian

Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1664 on: 2019-Oct-15 17:44 »
What is PLLT? :-)

PLLT may be my other radical idea here. "Pinky-Less, Less Thumb" further minimizes pinkies by eliminating the remote corner keys hit by the pinkies. also theoretically thumbs are slower than other fingers, so move the most used character (Space) away from thumb. on the other hand, thumbs are detached from other fingers, so they are more flexible for chording. such that thumbs are more ideal to be utilized as shifts and modifier keys.
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Den

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1665 on: 2019-Oct-15 17:46 »
You need a certain level of autism to understand xkb. Sorry that's not me.

Maybe move the left hand to the right by one column, which you left unused.

srr0

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Re: Balanced Keyboard Layout
« Reply #1666 on: 2019-Oct-15 18:01 »
Thanks, I'll try when I have the courage :)
  On my windows machine-- it's been my daily layout for about a month.  Having the space key on the board, makes typing a lot less hectic for me.

 

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